Is the 13/50 statistic real, or is it a result of racism in the justice system?

Question

Patrick McDonald · Answer

Many poor folks need to invest in at least some 8th grade homework. And here’s a great place to start - the Bureau of Justice Statistics:

“As for interracial violence, Black males disproportionately commit it. Between 2012-2015, there were 631,830 violent interracial victimizations, between Blacks and Whites.

Black males, who make up 7% of the US population, committed 85% of those victimizations, or 540,360 felonious assaults on Whites. While White males, 35% of the population, committed 14%, or 91,470 felonious assaults on Blacks.

Regarding threats to Blacks from the police?

“A police officer is 18 times more likely to be killed by a Black male, than an unarmed Black male is to be killed by a police officer.”

You won’t hear any of this on CNN, or pretty much any news media. They hate the truth because it destroys their vapid argument that “racism” is at the core of Black consternation.

Any suspect who argues and wrestles with police; says he has a knife; leans into a car reaching down to the floor (where there was indeed a knife) - stands a really good chance of being shot - no matter WHAT color he is. And for the record, police shoot far more White folks than Black folks - every month of every year.

The reality is very, very easy to find.

You just have to have a functional moral compass - and the intestinal fortitude - to look the truth in the eye.

Greg Streib · Answer

As near as I can tell, these FBI data reports are real and diligently collected. Yes, this crime problem does involve young males often involved in gangs, though there are also connections to robberies, home invasions, drugs, and more.

However, these data do not speak to the entire Black population. Most Black people are not murderers. These data can be misused to tarnish an entire population. That is a legitimate concern.

These data facts become especially relevant when there are riots in the streets about police misconduct and BLM calls for defunding the police. Not only are the criminals a subset of the population, but they are often found in specific areas.

Efforts to address this criminal subculture through law enforcement are very difficult for all kinds of reasons. The criminals are part of a community—often children and elements of their subculture have been infused into society and glamorized in song and dance. All this while people are killed at rates that rival some of the roughest spots on this earth.

This is a world-class social problem that some want to deny, and this is no different from denying global warming, the spread of HIV, or the realities of COVID. Follow the science they say. Of course, this is not gang-members killing themselves. So far, in 2020, some 220 children have been accidentally killed. A seven-year-old child out for Christmas shopping was recently shot in the head here in Atlanta. She was in a moving car at the time. That gives you a sense of how many bullets are flying around. Denial and inaction have real consequences.

Some argue that these data are just arrests, and sometimes that claim is that these crimes are committed by other ethnicities. Such claims are easily dismissed. Some crimes are easier to count than others, and murder is the easiest. Dead bodies are found, and an investigation follows. Those at the scene, the victims, and the families are often not being straight with the police. Sometimes the police arrest the wrong person, but the right person is a friend or a neighbor. These data reflect real events in real places that can be found on a map.

As far as racism goes…the debate goes on. The killings are real, and this is not a race war. This is about black communities tearing themselves apart. We can assume that social factors are involved, including racism. Young men involved in crime does happen everywhere, except this one is a gun and violence culture.

Clearly, nobody has found a quick solution, but denial is a part of the problem. Communities that help shelter killers are also an issue. Muddled police actions and corruption are also a part of this ugly mess.

Shaun Rasmussen · Answer

Yes it's a statistical fact, actually closer to 13/60 in 2023.

Did you know black women commit murder at a higher rate than white men? Black on white violence is 10x that of white on black violence when adjusted for population. Blacks are violent disproportionately which is why there are no predominantly black areas that aren't violent crime ridden shitholes. Plenty of poor white areas in west Virginia with low murder rates so stop with the poverty excuse. Poverty makes you steal not murder.

Steve Sailer · Answer

In the FBI’s 2019 statistics, blacks made up 55.9% of known murder offenders. The 86.6% of the population that is nonblack accounted for only 44.1% of known murder offenders. Remarkably, in 2019, the ratio of the black to nonblack per capita murder offender rate (8.2X) was even higher than the male to female rate.

The 2020 statistics are expected to be released in September 2021. Murders were up dramatically in 2020, especially after the “racial reckoning” began with George Floyd’s death, with much evidence suggesting that black-on-black shootings led the murder surge. So 2020 might see a new record for highest black share of known murder offenders, breaking the 1993 record of 56.2% during the Crack Wars.

Thomas Watkins · Answer

For starters, yes, the numbers are largely true.

With a couple major caveats.

First, 13% of the population is indicative of ALL Blacks.

That number is misleading because most of that 50 and change number can be traced to young Black males within an age range of 13–24, if I recall. Telling you it’s more like 3–7/50. This is an alarming number, certainly, and most sociologists researching the claim are quick to point out the impact of poverty (or home stability) is prevalent in nearly 100% of all cases. So, why this happens might be cultural or class, neither can be proven as white poverty comparatives are nearly impossible to find on such a scale.

Next, the rate implied is actually an arrest, not conviction rate.

However, the number is still relevant in that in most cases the suspect— as revealed to police by victims— is noted as “Black”. What makes this more relevant is Black on Black crime is astronomically prevalent in this study. Meaning those reporting those crimes, which would be required to lead to an arrest, reported a Black perpetrator from the mouth of a Black individual.

Thus, the lower odds here belong to a Black victim blaming a Black suspect in error the way some might hope he or she would to mitigate the amount of Black on Black crime found in society.

Rather, only a marginal portion of crime victims report their perpetrator as the wrong race, ala Susan Smith.

Saying as long as a crime has been committed & reported, if the perpetrator was reported as Black, chances are the crime was committed by a Black perpetrator.

Hence when some argue it’s the criminal justice system us out to get Black males, the correct statement is CRIME VICTIMS must be out to get Black men as they’re the ones reporting the crime.

Given most victims of violent Black crime are Black themselves, you might see where the racism narrative falls flat.

Ultimately, it’s not difficult to see a large amount of crime, in particular perpetrated by and on Black people is committed by young Black males. The incidents of Black on white crime are still higher than white on white crime, but not much.

In essence, people citing this stat to promote white supremacy are actually missing the fact that Black on Black violence or crime makes up much of this number. And if the goal is proving Black people are violent, all that’s proven is violence against Black people is largely done by their own community members.

It’s actually indicative of all ethnic groups as most violent crime is done by others we know.

Anonymous · Answer

Judge for yourself. Not just how many crimes are committed but what percentage of what culture is prosecuted for crimes. (FBI 2017 Uniform Crime Report, Table 43 [ https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2017/crime-in-the-u.s.-2017/topic-pages/tables/table-43 ])

One might expect that if all was equal that 70% of the population would be prosecuted for 70% of crimes and that mostly holds true, with one notable exception.

One might note that one culture is responsible not only for more crimes as a percentage of the population but for the crimes of Robbery, Murder, and Gambling one minority is prosecuted for more crimes than any other culture, including one that is Five Times the size.

Anonymous · Answer

It is not racist.

Black people committing more crime is a fact. How do you define crime? By what gets officially recorded. And if you look at official police records, Black people commit more crime. Black people are also disproportionately likely to be involved in violent crime in the US. This statement is also a statistic and not racism.

The part that adds discomfort may be the implications of the statement. Perhaps you want to argue against it: “Police should treat everybody equally” or “Police are racist and are more likely to arrest black people”. Or people hear it as, ‘You’re saying, black people are bad, or that black people are criminals’.

No, I did not say that.

What does that have to do with the original statement? The statement is not racist, it is a statistic. Plenty of other statistics are thrown out there everyday. No number is completely unbiased.

Why does this one make you uncomfortable?

Any feelings of bother are due to societal pressure to virtue signal about equality. Perhaps you could follow up with an argument the way the data collected is discriminatory. If you want to interpret the statistic, so be it. But that’s different thread than the previous statement.

But why argue against a statistic? The number is not going to change just because it offends.

We judge other people based on a whole myriad of factors they cannot change. Race is just another factor among those.

Omne Ensis Impera · Answer

You are getting stupid and irrelevant answers!The reason is genetic it is not cultural or “slave past history” open your mind.

Black people are more aggresive, extreme emotional they immediately react if they do not like something.

They are not capable of learning in school that’s why goverment accept blacks in colleges even if they have lower gpa than the requirement, they cannot be disiplined etc

Just take a look at a black majority community and analyze, do not be fooled by globalists protect your kind and your culture and embrace it be proud for it.

Tyler Roberts · Answer

for those who haven’t heard the quote. it’s “despite makin up only 13% of the population, blacks are responsible for 50% of violent crime”

from a US context, it is real. the exact numbers vary, I’ve seen anywhere from 13–16 and 45–60.

it only gets worse when you break it down by age and gender

it’s by far the young black men that makes up that 45%–60%.

there seems to be a link between unwed black mothers and that 50%, and I have no clue on how this could be fixed, at least in a way that doesn’t look like a purge

Matthew Park Moore · Answer

“What is the deal with the 13/50 homicide rate? Is it true or not true or just racist stats?”

I will assume you mean that African-Americans are 13% of the population, but commit, and are victims of, 50% of the homicides.

If so, that is roughly true. As true as any proposition in the social sciences can ever be.

Because we allow people to “self-identify”, you could argue that there are either more or fewer African-Americans than 13%. Your definition isn’t the same as their self-identifications. Most surveys and censuses are pretty close to 13%, say in the range of 12%-15%.

Murder statistics are collected by the FBI Uniform Crime Reports [ https://www.fbi.gov/services/cjis/ucr ]. The FBI collects submissions from State and local police agencies, in a standard format. When you get right down to it, the race of criminals and victims is whichever box was checked by the officer who wrote the original incident report. I suppose you could argue that millions of officers falsely checked boxes so as to make African-Americans look bad, but it strains credulity. Those reports are written to help catch criminals - inaccurate reports are self-defeating.

Based on the UCR, around 50% of murder victims are African-American. The exact figure varies from year to year, but 50% is a fair rough average. The race of murderers is harder to know, because 1/3 are never caught. But the ones who are caught are around 50% African-American, again with variations.

For example:

https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2019/crime-in-the-u.s.-2019/topic-pages/tables/table-43
shows arrests for murder in 2019. Out of 7964 total arrested, 4078 were African-American.

Crime statistics is a big subject. You shouldn’t pick one number, out of the huge mass of numbers, and claim that it proves anything. Especially if you searched for the “best” number - i.e. the one that best supports what you already want to believe.

Michael Northcott · Answer

“Q: Is the 13/50 statistic real, or is it a result of racism in the justice system?”

A: The statistic is valid but misleading, thus not likely as meaningful or useful as one may think.

For those who don’t know, this “13/50” thing is a sort of short form or slang for a provocative claim about crime statistics by race in the United States, which goes something like this:

“Despite being just 13% of the population, black Americans commit up to 50% of the violent crimes.” [ https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/despite-being-only-13-percent-of-the-population ]

While many claim that those propagating this idea are racists, I think it’s primarily a case of young men trying to be edgy and provocative on the Internet. While provocative and somewhat based on statistical fact, the claim is overly simplistic, as it leads one to assume that the violent crime rate among 20 year old black male gang members is the similar to the violent crime rate of 70 year old retired black women, which anyone with a shred of common sense would know is clearly not the case.

However, to answer the question, let’s actually examine the data for a moment. According to FBI Universal Crime Reporting Table 43 for 2018 [ https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2018/crime-in-the-u.s.-2018/tables/table-43 ] [1], if you count only the murder and non-negligent manslaughter row, it’s about 53%, however if you include everything which constitutes a violent crime (the “violent crime” column), it’s actually more like 37%.

Regarding this data, there are several very important caveats which call the usefulness and relevance of this data into question:

* It assumes that no one is ever wrongfully arrested, and only counts violent crimes where an arrest is made; likely there are vastly more violent incidents between friends, relatives, members of the same ethnic group, etc which go unreported or which never lead to an arrest
 * 392,562 violent crimes reported per year in a country of 330 million people means that all things considered equal, the odds that an individual citizen will be the victim of a violent crime in a given year is about a 1.19 in 1000
 * The vast majority of all violent crime is either drug or gang-related, so if you’re not involved in gangs or drugs your odds are vastly better
 * Males are the perpetrators and the victims in about 90% of all violent crimes
 * This data assumes the arrest was legitimate and the arrested person was in fact the perpetrator (surely most are, but mistakes and lies could still skew the data)
 * This particular dataset does not break it down by gender as FBI Universal Crime Reporting Table 66 for 2018 [ https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2018/crime-in-the-u.s.-2018/tables/table-66/table-66.xls ]  [2]does
 * This data does not provide any insight into the motivating factors behind the crimes
While the intent of this provocative claim appears to primarily be to troll people online, it’s misleading and offensive. If the aim were to create a useful social commentary, a much more useful social commentary regarding demographics and rates of violence would be to point out the fact that young men worldwide account for roughly 80% of all violent crime (Interesting read: Sex differences in crime - Wikipedia [ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_differences_in_crime#In_the_United_States ]). Thus, the most accurate demographic group responsible for the vast majority of violent crime is not a race, but a gender; males, particularly males aged 13 to 30, and particularly males aged 13 to 30 who were raised without a father figure.

Also interesting is the fact that if you factor in the difference in fatherlessness by demographic group in the US crime statistics, the disparity in the violent crime rate among different ethnic groups fades away entirely.

1. Table 43 [ https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2018/crime-in-the-u.s.-2018/tables/table-43 ]
2. Table 66 [ https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2018/crime-in-the-u.s.-2018/tables/table-66/table-66.xls ]

BARBARA MEALER · Answer

There are multiple causes, but the main one is the “tribal” mindset of the Black community.

Having lived in the projects, I’ve seen it in action. They had exactly the same opportunities as I did to get out of the projects. Instead of taking them, they take the easy way and go to gangs, selling drugs, and any easy way to make money. The girls even bragged about having babies to get more welfare. That isn’t something made up by the “privileged” white. It is a reality, where their kids may have a different father.

The woman who lived next to me had 5 children. Only two had the same father. She lived on welfare and had no intention of ever going to work and asked why I was working.

This is what you are dealing with. And it isn’t just one or two—it is generations who are using the system to remain in a ghetto so they can have a guaranteed income and supplement that with illegal dealings. It is big business. Drugs and prostitution is easy, profitable, and those who are controlling it will protect their areas.

What is sad is that they don’t see education as a way out of the ghettos since that means hard work, and less pay. You get more with the gangs than working a job. And this is the culture that has been in existence since they formed their own communities and yes, the whites didn’t help any.

There was a whole area in the Carolinas where there were free Blacks who were prosperous. They were elected to the state legislatures and had a say in the government and also served in Congress and the Senate in the 1870s. Then the Democrat whites came in and took over the towns and pushed there leaders into the background. And yes—it was the DEMOCRAT whites, those who formed the KKK and who still support it today. There was a reason a lot of the Blacks moved north where there was less discrimination, and they could get jobs.

Today, many of the Blacks culturally eschew education and work for the easy gangs and the money they get. Those who move out of the ghettos have discovered a whole different world where they can earn good money and have the dream of their own homes and acceptance in the communities.

Then there are those who tend to not integrate and end up isolating and building a community of Blacks, which ends up with the gangsters taking over in a repeating cycle.

So it is a mindset, a tribal culture that they embrace that is helping to keep them in that cycle of murdering their own to be top dog in the area.

Frank Popa · Answer

Nobody wants criminals. There is some White guy that kills a bunch of people and the immediate reaction by Whites is that he is not one of us, that he is a nut job.

We should make that a rule! We have white folks, black folks, and criminals. Looking at the race of criminals should be reserved for some special uses.

One such use is to refute other bad statistics. When Yamiche Alcindor (who was really good pre-Trump. LOL, may still be really good) tells us that cops kill black folks at 2.6 times the rate they kill white folks, that is wrong, even though accurate. Cops kill criminals at a far greater rate than they kill folks and the rate of black violent crime is 3 times that of white violent crime. Bottom line, the Chauvins of the world are rare enough to not even show up statistically. But to show that I had to use the race of those in that third “race,” the criminal race.

The other valid use would be to figure out how to fix things. Noticing a difference based on race one can identify that a problem exists and how to fix it. Me? I want to blame big city schools for the higher crime rates there (I vote Dem but they still spin me up more than Reps and Dems are the ones against fixing our schools). Jobs, jobs, jobs. {{{Other less PC causes … perhaps low expectations due to Dem rhetoric??? Why would you study if everybody is telling you that it won’t do any good, that white people will thwart you at every turn no matter how accomplished you are? }}}

At any rate, the stat is fine but you have to be careful. Use it to help people, not to disparage them.

Harry Sapien · Answer

I am putting forward a different perspective on this question all over the internet.

In regards to the person committing the crime and how it is recorded. Let’s say the person’s name is Mike.

If the mother is black and the father is black the crime is reported as a black crime statistic

If the mother is white and the father is white the crime is reported as a white crime statistic

If the mother is white and the father is black the crime is reported as a black crime statistic

If the mother is black and the father is white the crime is reported as a black crime statistic

seems to me the statistics are skewed…

Grace Sprocket · Answer

It is something like 2% of counties are responsible for 50% of homicides using firearms, and usually in inner city areas. This is *largely* correlated with a criminal minority who are involved in drugs, prostitution and gang culture. This is more significant among minority populations, and is certainly part of their ‘pop culture’ image of what is cool.

Andrew Piereder · Answer

I recall reading an interview with a young black man who was in custody after he shot a rival.

He felt he had to shoot him, as in it was necessary, required, imperative. The reason? He had been disrespected, and the only way to reclaim that respect was murder.

That tracks with the cultural analysis I’ve seen, which ironically traces it’s way back to the culture of the antebellum South and is known as honor culture. Thomas Sowell goes into considerable detail on this subject (he traces it back to the English midlands…).

So I thought about this a lot and had to rhetorically ask myself what I would do in this situation and why. I would not be shooting anyone, in fact I might not ever think about what some random dude called me or said to me ever again.

Why is that?

His opinion is at odds with what I know about myself and also that everyone else treats me with considerable respect.

Why do I get the respect?

I expect to be respected and I expect to offer respect as a default. Disrespect is an exceptional occurrence.

Yes, but why do people show you respect?

I am well-spoken, well-groomed, polite and importantly, show them respect, but thinking a little deeper, it’s because I am useful to others. The “interest” people have in me has a lot to do with my skill set. Over a lifetime, I have acquired a lot of diverse skills. I speak several languages and can speak authoritatively on a number of subjects. People seek me out for advice. I feel respected beyond simply the normal culture affections and because of who I have made myself into. I feel the same way about my friends, who are all impressive individuals with significant accomplishments, knowledge and wisdom. They are admirable and useful.

So who get’s disrespected?

People without skills (particularly men). Men who aren’t useful and thus “unsuccessful”.

This is where I made the connection. Black men caught up in this cycle of violence generally have no skills, nothing they can offer to others to be useful. Nothing in which they can feel pride of accomplishment. All men, specifically men, need to feel respected, by women, by other men. If they have nothing sophisticated to offer (e.g., carpentry skills), they default to violence. A man who can physically dominate another man still manages to get the respect that everyone requires. In a primitive environment, this creates an equilibrium, with the strongest and/or most violent at the top of the hierarchy. Everyone knows their place.

Now you introduce a gun into that situation. Size, strength, speed and violence become irrelevant. The lowest man on the totem can attempt to regain respect through the use of a firearm.

You remove the gun and you go back to the physical skill equilibrium, but that is still an inherently violent culture. What is necessary to transform the culture to a non-violent form?

A transition to a dynamic that respects more sophisticated skill sets over physical prowess. Are black American surgeons violent? I don’t have statistics, but I would bet that the incidence of violence is negligible.

Anyways, that’s my analysis.

Dodo Kim · Answer

It’s due to their mindset and culture. They don’t value education and success, and 83% of Black babies are born out of wedlock, often to teenage mothers with no education or stable jobs.

Anonymous · Answer

Yes it is 100% factually true.

Factual and accurate statistics cannot be “racist". A point or statement made because of the statistics or the way they are used to implement policy can be racist.

The reasons for it are many. Some cultural, low-income high-crime neighborhoods the main problem is systemic racism. Allow me to explain =

If you give a man a fish you feed him for a day if you teach a man to fish you feed him for a lifetime. If you do whatever you can to make sure that you are the only place he can get fish, you can control that man.

If you tell that man should someone else come to power then they will starve to death because they no longer will have a supply of fish you have a voter for life.

If you make sure education in the inner city and areas black people live in absolutely sucks, then you can ensure they do not become educated enough to realize what it is you have done to them.

If you write up a law that targets the black community for incarceration like the 1994 crime Bill where black people get longer prison sentences than white people for the same drug, you can break up families and leave people even more Reliant and dependent on government.

It isn't a coincidence that all the cities with multi-generational black poverty have been run by the same people for decades, It Is by Design.

People today talk about institutional racism, all we have to do is look who has being in charge of the cities and education systems where the majority of black people living and multi-generational poverty live. It's pretty obvious who is responsible for the institutional / systemic racism. The Democrats who are running the goddamn institutions and system.

https://www.theledger.com/entertainment
http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/theledger
https://www.theledger.com/jobs
https://www.theledger.com/homes
Letter: Democrats are the racists by replacing dad with welfare checks

Posted Apr 4, 2020 at 12:02 AM

Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., and Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer, D-N.Y. [FILE PHOTO/THE ASSOCIATED PRESS]▲

Every election cycle the Democrats play the race card, saying those terrible Republicans are racists. Of course, this lie is spread by the left bias mainstream media, which is 92% negative against President Donald Trump.

Since when is it racist to want to get minorities jobs, a good education and a good family structure. Why is it that black lives matter to Democrats only when a white kills a black, but when blacks kill blacks, Democrats are silent because it doesn't meet their race baiting agenda.

Another weapon of the Democrats is welfare. New York Times reporter Nicholas Lemann says public housing projects treat the symptoms of poverty, not the problem, and it is not the taxpayers' concern to raise other people's children born out of irresponsibility. The fact is all the government help can never be an adequate substitute for responsible parents.

Democrats know full well that if people have good educations, jobs and a good family structures, they wouldn't need the Democrat Party. This is why the Democrats continue dividing the country by keeping people dependent on the government, so they will continue to vote Democrat. Democrats are the racists by replacing dad with welfare checks.

But of course people don't like to believe that. To quote Joe Biden's hero:

thus in the primitive simplicity of their minds they more readily fall victims to the big lie than the small lie, since they themselves often tell small lies in little matters but would be ashamed to resort to large-scale falsehoods.

It would never come into their heads to fabricate colossal untruths, and they would not believe others could have the impudence to distort the truth so infamously. Even though the facts which prove this to be so may be brought clearly to their minds, they will still doubt and waver and will continue to think there may be some other explanation. For the grossly impudent lie always leaves traces behind it, even after it has been nailed down, a fact which is known to all expert liars in this world and to all who conspire together in the art of lying.

— Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, vol. I, ch. X

Arek Petrosian · Answer

“How do I debunk the allegation that black people make up 13% of the US population but commit 50% of all crimes?”

You want to ‘debunk” a statistical reality?

Would you also like to “debunk the allegation” that magic doesn’t exist, that Santa isn’t real…? Or maybe you’d like to debunk the allegation that fish live in the ocean, or camels in the desert?

Grow the fuck up, Sunshine.

EDIT: This is important, so I have to revise my answer. The whole 13/50 thing that’s referenced by the OP (and others), refers to the percentage of the population that is black, committing the majority of violent crimes in the US. Now, that 13% IS the percentage of the population comprised of blacks, but it should be 7/50 due to that 7% being black males, who make up the overwhelming majority of those committing violent crimes (among blacks). So the question should reference violent crimes, not “all crimes.” And to be even more accurate, it really should reference murder, specifically.

I should have corrected this in my initial answer, and I do apologize for any confusion that this error/omission on my part might have caused.

Dennis Manning · Answer

If you say it as a means to project statistical reality, no.

If you say it as a means to imply that the black race is somehow violent and crime ridden, yes.

It's not what you say, it's your intent behind it.

If you say it is a means to point out problems that need to be addressed, it isn't racist.

But if you say it has a means to say that the black race is inferior then it is racist.

Not all people are skilled at reading the intent behind another person's words. Most people's default position is to assume the worst of the person making the statement.

So I ask.

What is your intent behind what you said?

Answer that truthfully, and I'll know if you're racist or not.